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Rank: Member
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Joined: 11/3/2007
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Location: USA
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Hi all, I'm new to Orbiter in general, and am instantly sucked into wanting to do some development. I'm really impressed with the dedication of developers around this great blue planet and would like to contribute in future. This is the simulator I've been waiting for my entire life! So now it's hunker down time with the right docs and experimenting time. . . I'm just finishing up writing a connected set of near future sci-fi novels, and have been exploring space colonization at great length, which leads me to my question here. Is it possible (at least theoretically) to create a working (or at least visually functioning) rotovator for Orbiter? By a rotovator, I mean a spinning cable/bolo that orbits a body such as the moon? It would have to be at least 250 kilometers long, and would have to have a climbing weight facility to lengthen or shorten the cable. This is what I'd like to build. The question is: Is it doable? Thanks,
“It is a nipping and eager air, and a naughty night to swim in.” http://www.angelfire.com/wa3/hybrid_music/
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Rank: Newbie
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Joined: 8/22/2007
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Location: Northern WI
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Yes, a rotovator should be possible. However, a rotovator like you describe (capable of picking up items from Earth's surface) is physically unrealistic. Aside from the fact it would have to be made from "unobtainium", the sheer mass required by a 'vator like this would cause all kinds of problems with tides and weather patterns. A "surface contact" rotovator is feasable on the moon, even with today's materials. Studies have been done on the H.A.S.T.O.L. (High Altitude Space Tether Orbital Launcher) concept, and some proof-of-concept work has been done. HASTOL uses a rotating tether 90 km (from COG to grapple) long (and a PeA of 190 km). Payloads are launched using a re-usable transonic vehicle such as the DF-9 concept vehicle, and carried to an altitude of 100 km and a velocity of 3.5 km/s, then handed off to the 'vator for HEO insertion or escape. A google search for "Rotovator" will turn up a fair amount of info about this concept, including some specs and simple "blue-prints" of the components (DF-9 and Rotovator) I'm hoping to have one of these ready for release sometime in the second half of next year - but need to learn C++ as my programming experience is almost entirely Machine Language coding for industrial controls and automation, and some BASIC I learned 25 years ago. I have several bad habits like treating functions like subroutines, and am only starting to grasp the concept of classes. Someone could easily beat me to it, but if not I'll hopefully have a working package next fall, and probably a Lunavator first (since it would be simpler, no auto-pilot capable of the "hand-off" rendezvous would be needed) Tommy P.S. The following PDFs may prove helpfull: www.niac.usra.edu/files/library/meetings/fellows/nov99/355Bogar.pdfwww.niac.usra.edu/files/library/meetings/annual/jun01/391Grant.pdf
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Rank: Member
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Tokabola, I was indeed thinking of the moon when I posted this, as well as the possibility of cislunar tether transport from LEO to the moon (and back). Thanks for the resource list. You might want to check out some of the pubs at Tethers Unlimited Inc., available at http://www.tethers.com/TUPubs.html. Of particular interest is "The Cislunar Tether Transport System Architecture" by Robert P. Hoyt. Let me know how your project goes. Maybe we could do some collaboration.
“It is a nipping and eager air, and a naughty night to swim in.” http://www.angelfire.com/wa3/hybrid_music/
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Rank: Member
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BTW- Digging around at the usual Orbiter sites I've discovered that a certain Mathew W. did an addon for version 031217 called TetherMFD 0.96 but hasn't been updated since August 04. The doc in the addon says it'll "Tether your EVA. Pull another ship, vessel, sat, or cargo pod around. Grab a space station as it passes over, flinging you into orbit. Tow another glider through the atmosphere. Tie two things together, spin them around each other, then let go to fling objects into a new orbit Pull yourself up slowly to a heavy geostationary object. Create a 'space bolo' or 'rotovator' Lots of other things." It runs on the plugin TetherMFD.dll. I'm wondering if there's anyone out there that knows where the original source code for this addon is. It might save a lot of work not having to reinvent the wheel. Anyone?
“It is a nipping and eager air, and a naughty night to swim in.” http://www.angelfire.com/wa3/hybrid_music/
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Rank: Newbie
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Joined: 8/22/2007
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Location: Northern WI
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I won't be doing much on it very soon due to time constraints, but I certainly have no problem with a collaboration. I can probably get the modelling done (using Blender), and perhaps even the 'vator auto-pilot, but I suspect an auto-pilot for the DF-9 will be more than I can handle. It would need to be able to create and follow a ballistic trajectory with the apogee hitting a moving target at a specific time, within 20 meters or so (the 'vator AP can adjust the grapple position about that much) My math skills aren't up to it, and I'm not fond of math so my learning curve is a little slow in that regard. A CTTS was the eventual goal, but that would probably also require an AP for cargo module (for mid-coarse corrections if needed. And if I want to be accurate, I'd also need a tanker for the aerial refueling of the DF-9, and APs capable of that rendevouz, although that rendezvous could conceivably be performed manually. I suppose I could just give the DF-9 an unrealistically large fuel supply or fuel-specific ISP, and eliminate the refueling step. I suspect the "hand-off" rendevouz would be too difficult to do under manual control without an unrealistically strong rcs system. Link to my main reference for lunavators: http://members.aol.com/Nathan2go/lunavat.htm
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Rank: Member
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A good link, tokabola. Thanks.
“It is a nipping and eager air, and a naughty night to swim in.” http://www.angelfire.com/wa3/hybrid_music/
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Rank: Advanced Member
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Joined: 2/20/2006
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Location: U.K.
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Rank: Newbie
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Joined: 8/22/2007
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Location: Northern WI
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That slingatron makes me think of a washing machine with an unbalanced load. Wouldn't it shake itself to pieces? Not to mention the G loading on the projectile from centrifugal force
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Rank: Advanced Member
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Joined: 2/20/2006
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Its been around on the forum before, this thread has some info on the practicalities:- http://orbit.m6.net/Forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=8591and this guy is not impressed:- http://math.temple.edu/~wds/homepage/slingatron.myrabobut he did get "Freeman Dyson" in the first sentence. N.
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